Violence

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Violence

Postby hummingbird_mywill » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:27 pm

Ok, I searched through the topics like a good little forumer and was surprised to not see a thread about this.

I have observed two things amongst a lot of the RRM:

1) pacifism (lol wrote pacificism first and was like, nooope that's the ocean)
2) fascination with violence/gore genre

personally, I used to be both anti-pacifism, and enjoyed violence. Then last summer I went on an 8 month violence fast (and broke it to watch the Hunger Games movie haha) and my perceptions changed a lot. I now get super disturbed by the majority of things depicting any kind of intentional mistreatment of human bodies. The other day my little sister was "playing" this "game" http://666games.net/Violent/Flash/Play/ ... ame_2.html and it's one of the most twisted and horrifying things I've ever seen. It is not even remotely ok to me that she thought it was fun.

I also noticed I've become more receptive to Jesus' call for turning the other cheek. I'm trying to take the Bible as literally as possible, and this one is usually excused away a lot in the church and society in general. I don't know where I stand on the issue yet... I think there is room for self-defence but I'm not sure yet where I would draw the line.

Thoughts? I would like to hear your reasonings/testimonies for your opinions on either/both sides of this (if you have them).
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Re: Violence

Postby limework » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 pm

i've been thinking about this a lot myself lately. we recently watched machine gun preacher, about sam childers. if you don't know, he's an american pastor that goes to uganda to fight kony's reign of terror. he protects kids by sometimes killing kony's soldiers. and afterward, as the credits rolled, the real sam childers said something like "If someone were to take your family, and you enlisted me to get them back, does it matter how I get them back?" he was implying that killing in that situation is okay. and after the movie, my family was all pumped up, thinking he was awesome. while i do too in a way, i couldn't help but wonder...turn the other cheek? what exactly does that mean?
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Re: Violence

Postby phyro_gp » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:11 am

Last night an Old youth paster of mine made the proposal that all us citizens over 18 should by law carry a gun and If they refuse to do so, they get higher taxes. i don't know If he was being sarcastic but the thought of a law like that utterly shocked me. I would think that a law like that would make matters worse. Plus what drives any Christ follower to even say something like that?

In terms of violence in movies well i cant stand war movies, they truly discust me. As far as horror and zombies go well zombies arent real..
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Re: Violence

Postby heavymetal_dante » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:37 am

I'm not saying that violence is a good thing, but have you read the Old Testament?
Judges 3:20-22 wrote:Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his palace and said, “I have a message from God for you.” As the king rose from his seat, Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king’s belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, and his bowels discharged. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it.

Yeah.

phyro_gp wrote:In terms of violence in movies well i cant stand war movies, they truly discust me. As far as horror and zombies go well zombies arent real..

Well that's just silly.
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Re: Violence

Postby icantsavemyself » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:42 pm

I used to be really gung-ho America and military and what not. Since I started taking the bible more literally all that has changed. I still watch war movies sometimes, I still play video games and read books that have violence in them but sometimes they can affect me. I feel, personally, that it's all about how those images affect you. If you feel nothing when seeing piles of dead soldiers, then something is wrong. If you feel like you need to support the military or go kill terrorists after playing Battlefield 3 then something is wrong.

As to the whole OT argument, I think it's been done a few times.
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Re: Violence

Postby heavymetal_dante » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:04 pm

I agree, that it's all about how it personally affects you. I don't think there can be a big yes or no towards it. If you feel that you can't stomach it then it's good and healthy to avoid it. But for me so much of what I study and enjoy has violence in it that I don't think I could ever cut it off. From an artistic standpoint violence is necessary a lot of the time. It's when you become desensitized that it's bad.

The OT argument has probably been done a number of times but

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Re: Violence

Postby rambo_zombie » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:51 am

UHM IDK WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT BUT THAT GAME MADE ME FEEL SICK INSIDE...


what the heck
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Re: Violence

Postby manicgeodude » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:38 am

agreed. that game was my vocabulary is poor up.

and the OT argument has never made sense to me.
just because there IS violence in the Bible doesn't mean violence is ok. there are very specific instances when God himself called people to war. OUTSIDE OF THOSE INSTANCES, how can you possibly construe the violence committed as righteous?
a great argument for pacifism out of the OT that i know I've heard Josh use before is that God wouldn't let David build his temple because he was a man of was. He let Solomon do it because he was a man of peace. If God won't let someone who He said is 'a man after my own heart' build His temple because they've committed acts of violence, how can we say it's ever righteous when we do it?
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Re: Violence

Postby icantsavemyself » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:48 pm

I never tried to say that the violence was righteous? I'm not sure if you're aiming that at me or not. But yeah, I straight up agree that the violence in the OT was very specific circumstances that can't be recreated or justified now because God isn't telling us to go kill people now. Christ followers are called to love; end of story.
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Re: Violence

Postby heavymetal_dante » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:01 pm

I'm by no means saying that violence is good or trying to say that the OT encourages violence, I'm strictly talking about exposure to violence through movies, books, comics etc. I probably should have specified that, sorry.
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Re: Violence

Postby icantsavemyself » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:13 pm

I was actually talking to phyro and manicgeodude.
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Re: Violence

Postby heavymetal_dante » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:18 pm

Yeah, I was talking to manicgeodude too, I guess I should have quoted, haha.
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Re: Violence

Postby manicgeodude » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:43 am

haha, i was talking to dante, but i obviously misunderstood both of you cuz i thought you were talking about literal violence. i agree with you. artistically, it's never bothered me, altho i know certain things (cough Serbian Film cough) have desensitized me
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Re: Violence

Postby phyro_gp » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:03 am

In all honesty I've been trying to reconcile the warrior God in the ot and Jesus in the nt, to be honest I'm sort of stuck. Again my current comment on games and movies is pretty much the same. If it affects you don't Play or watch, same goes for me.
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Re: Violence

Postby JackBanshee » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:21 am

I've always kind of thought that the need for violence in the OT was a mark of the fallen nature of man and was necessary in order to preserve Israel (God's people) as a nation. Since there isn't really a Christian nation in need of preservation, violence isn't necessary anymore in that context. As far as God using violence goes against people or nations, I guess the way I've viewed it was as judgment, something that God is entitled to but were not (eg Proverbs 20:22 or Acts 5:1-11).
sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense. i haven't really put a ton of thought into it and im pretty tired.
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Re: Violence

Postby phyro_gp » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:39 pm

JackBanshee wrote:I've always kind of thought that the need for violence in the OT was a mark of the fallen nature of man and was necessary in order to preserve Israel (God's people) as a nation. Since there isn't really a Christian nation in need of preservation, violence isn't necessary anymore in that context. As far as God using violence goes against people or nations, I guess the way I've viewed it was as judgment, something that God is entitled to but were not (eg Proverbs 20:22 or Acts 5:1-11).
sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense. i haven't really put a ton of thought into it and im pretty tired.

Actually that makes A LOT of sense. Probably more sense than most..
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Re: Violence

Postby icantsavemyself » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:38 pm

That's pretty much the way I see it.
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Re: Violence

Postby GiraffeInMyThroat » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:13 am

JackBanshee wrote:I've always kind of thought that the need for violence in the OT was a mark of the fallen nature of man and was necessary in order to preserve Israel (God's people) as a nation. Since there isn't really a Christian nation in need of preservation, violence isn't necessary anymore in that context. As far as God using violence goes against people or nations, I guess the way I've viewed it was as judgment, something that God is entitled to but were not (eg Proverbs 20:22 or Acts 5:1-11).
sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense. i haven't really put a ton of thought into it and im pretty tired.

Mostly agreed, except that "God's nation" does exist today- as the church, the body, the bride, etc, and its "preservation" is Christ. But yeah.
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Re: Violence

Postby joshypants99 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:34 pm

Nicely put.

GiraffeInMyThroat wrote:
JackBanshee wrote:I've always kind of thought that the need for violence in the OT was a mark of the fallen nature of man and was necessary in order to preserve Israel (God's people) as a nation. Since there isn't really a Christian nation in need of preservation, violence isn't necessary anymore in that context. As far as God using violence goes against people or nations, I guess the way I've viewed it was as judgment, something that God is entitled to but were not (eg Proverbs 20:22 or Acts 5:1-11).
sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense. i haven't really put a ton of thought into it and im pretty tired.

Mostly agreed, except that "God's nation" does exist today- as the church, the body, the bride, etc, and its "preservation" is Christ. But yeah.
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