Divorce

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Divorce

Postby ThePageStaysBlank » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:00 am

We have a couple of threads concerning marriage and relationships and when these subjects come up it doesn't take long for mentions of divorce to pop up as well. It made me curious about everyone's different thoughts on the subject. Did you experience divorce as a kid? Are you worried it will happen to you? Do you think it's a primarily bad thing or do you think it can be a good thing?
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Re: Divorce

Postby HxC Scene Roo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:08 am

I think far too often it's used to escape working on a relationship. Like you mentioned in the other thread, no relationship is perfect or ever will be, and too frequently divorce is used as an out when people's unrealistic expectations aren't met. Relationships are difficult. You have to deal with difficulty to appreciate the enjoyable times.

People also get married way to early (in both age and in terms of relationship length) before they really know the other person or themselves. Which can lead to a heck of a lot of problems. In those situations I think divorce is necessary. I just wish people weren't so frivolous about it in the first place.

I do believe divorce can be a very good thing. My parents divorced when I was around 14, and I can honestly say I wish it would have happened sooner. As several of you already know, my father is/was (haven't had contact with him in 5+ years) a severe alcoholic. My home life devolved into a battleground constantly. It was emotional warfare. A traumatic experience that I have never fully recovered from. He was unwilling to admit to his faults, so of course unwilling to work on them, and that really left my mom with no other choice. Has that decision had its consequences? Of course. I no longer have contact with an entire side of my family (and some undesirable experiences with them just prior to losing that contact), my family's financial situation has been in question since then, my responsibilities jumped up to "man of the house" at around 15 which I wasn't exactly ready for, but in the end it was the best possible option, and I have never believed otherwise. Any negative has been far outweighed by the positives.

I don't know about the religious angle of it all. I was raised to believe it was wrong, and I feel that's part of what kept my parents together for longer than what they should have been. I no longer put any stock in religion though, so it doesn't really matter to me.

TL;DR: Divorce can be a very very good thing and is sometimes necessary but people should be more realistic, mature, and intelligent when committing themselves to someone else in the first place.
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Re: Divorce

Postby clayton » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:48 am

Too be honest, I think fear of divorce is one of the major reasons I intend on remaining celibate, although it's not the only reason or even the biggest reason.
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Re: Divorce

Postby Josh_Dead » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:07 pm

Divorce can be a very very good thing and is sometimes necessary, but people should be more realistic, mature, and intelligent when committing themselves to someone else in the first place.
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Re: Divorce

Postby HxC Scene Roo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:13 pm

That's a great way to put it, Josh. :roll:
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Re: Divorce

Postby Josh_Dead » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:14 pm

I know, right? Poetry in thievery.
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Re: Divorce

Postby Sara » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:21 pm

I think that it can be beneficial in some cases but not to the degree that 50% of marriage ends in divorce.

I will disagree with Roo here on the length of relationship being shorter as a negative thing. Until recently marriages weren't decided by the people in them. These people were still able to put forth the necessary effort needed to get past any discrepancies between them. While not all relationships were successful (see first sentence) it was a much greater rate than it is now.

Not only that but, as I briefly mentioned in the other thread, serial monagomy trains you for divorce. You spend 3-5 years with someone, break up, and repeat 2-3 times until you feel old enough to get married. Then after 3-5 years has passed you begin to feel like something is missing and for some reason your spouse isn't it anymore. This is because you've conditioned yourself in such a way that you only expect relationships to last so long. According to the US Census first marriages that end in divorce average 8 years. http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p70-97.pdf
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Re: Divorce

Postby vertebrae » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:51 pm

the way i see it, divorce is so common in America mainly because of the consumer-oriented culture. people are brought up with the idea that their purpose in life is to "get all they can and can all they get," and then when they've grown up (physically, at least) they find someone who gives them what they want (companionship, sex, money, whatever) and they get married. as soon as the person they married stops giving them what they want for whatever reason, they decide that the person "changed and no longer makes me happy" and a divorce is sought.

of course that is not at all the only cause for the divorce, and divorce is entirely justified in cases such as where abuse is going on or a cheating spouse is unremorseful toward his or her infidelity.
i just think that the excuse "people change" is ridiculous because people are entirely predictable. if a person looks at the world through the lense of a consumer asking "what can i get?" they will look at their spouse the same way.
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Re: Divorce

Postby ThePageStaysBlank » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:51 pm

Sara wrote:I will disagree with Roo here on the length of relationship being shorter as a negative thing. Until recently marriages weren't decided by the people in them. These people were still able to put forth the necessary effort needed to get past any discrepancies between them. While not all relationships were successful (see first sentence) it was a much greater rate than it is now.

If you want to look that far back you have to remember that it was a very different time then. I mean, there are a lot of really funny letters from the Renaissance where women talk about how thrilled they are that their husband has past away. Maybe not quite that blunt, but they disregarded all of his last wishes and focused on what they wanted to do instead. Keep in mind that many of these women didn't see their husbands unless they were trying for another child and a few (the very rich) even lived in different houses. And if you're looking that far back, it doesn't matter, because divorce wasn't an option.

Even back in the 1960s you still had to have a solid reason for a divorce. My grandparents divorced when my mom was a kid (about eight, I think). She's talked about how my grandmother had to have proof that my grandfather was cheating on her. My mom can remember her mother chasing her father all around town, trying to get a picture of him with his new girlfriend. And on top of that, once my grandmother did get a divorce she had three kids to pay for and huge medical bills from her second son who died due to terminal illness. If it hadn't of been for her in-laws choosing her over their own son, she wouldn't have been able to file for divorce.

It's easy to look at the past and tout them as better times, but divorce as we know it today is very different from divorce in the 1960s or even the 1980s. That said, I agree that the divorce rate is too high. However, there is a some information out there that questions how that 50% number is found.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ful ... -longevity
This isn't the best way of explaining why that number can be considered faulty, but it is a good introduction.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 24,00.html
This one is probably a little better. It gives more examples.

I tried to find an old article I read but I couldn't. It basically gave five things to avoid (like getting married after 25, having kids after you get married, not hiding credit card/school debt, etc.) and it showed how your risk of divorce decreased from 50% to 20%.
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Re: Divorce

Postby Bethanie » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:49 am

Yeah, a person who gets divorced multiple times is included in that rate, which many people think isn't fair. Living together before marriage hurts more than helps because life together seems mundane after the wedding and wedding costs and other stuff just strain the relationship. I didn't happen to read the articles you linked, I'm just pulling from info I got from a class my very first semester.

I don't know what I think about divorce anymore. It's true that too many people just default to divorce instead of trying to fix things and even when they try to fix things they become aggravated when things don't improve overnight and get divorced anyway. In my case, my parents divorced in 2010, two months before I entered college. I was so emotionally unstable at the time because so many other changes were going on, but in the end their decision was for the best. I remember that they would constantly scream and fight when i was a kid and it just got worse as my sisters and I grew older. Now, I have a better relationship with my parents than I did before and really feel as though my dad puts effort into spending time with us.
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Re: Divorce

Postby limework » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:52 pm

as a divorcee i have some thoughts.

my first marriage was awful. we were too young and didn't even love each other. several people in our church at the time told us God wanted us to be together. and to this day i agree with that notion, only now i know He did not mean romantically. we were great friends (still are friends, but it's obviously different now). we stayed together for 2 and a half years despite being utterly miserable the entire time, only because we were afraid of what God would think if we divorced. i talked to Him a lot about it - stuff like the scriptures in Matthew about divorce - and eventually got a peace about the divorce. and now i know it's because He never intended for us to be together like that in the first place.

divorce is bittersweet. it can be good, but usually, the marriage is worth fighting for.
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Re: Divorce

Postby rambo_zombie » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:14 pm

I just agree with everything limey says. That's about how this is going to work now.
I think the whole idea of "God hating divorce" isn't about him hating the person who got divorced, but rather, hating the hurt those two people have to go through.
There are so many situations where people should get divorced and they're shamed into staying in an abusive or just plain miserable marriage longer then they should be.
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Re: Divorce

Postby ThePageStaysBlank » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:37 am

Yeah, when my mom told me she was getting divorced she said that she had spent years praying about it. Finally she asked God that if she was supposed to stay with her husband that he bring the love back into their marriage. Ever since then there has been more and more things pulling them in different directions.

Rambo--I agree that people are shamed into staying in abusive relationships. People seem to forget that while God hates divorce he loves his children no matter what.
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Re: Divorce

Postby limework » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:52 am

word.
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Re: Divorce

Postby phyro_gp » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:25 pm

limework wrote:word.

Wok?

But Yeah I think you guys said what Im thinking.
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Re: Divorce

Postby hummingbird_mywill » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:54 pm

I'm pretty extreme on my views of divorce, which makes a lot of people uncomfortable :? but here we go.

Jesus wrote:They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female'. And he said, 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one'. Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together... Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery-unless his wife has been unfaithful.

-Matthew 19:4-9


Combine this with

Paul wrote:For those who are married, I have a command from the Lord. A wife must not leave her husband. But if she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him. And the husband must not leave his wife.

Now I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him.... But if the husband or wife who isn't a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian brother or sister is not longer bound to their spouse for God has called us to live in peace.
-1 Corinthians 7:10-13, 15


The way I see it, is... you get married:
If they're a Christian, stay together at all costs. If for some extremely extenuating circumstance it absolutely could not work, you can't remarry. You must remain single and pray that God will heal whatever issue there is. The only way out of this is if the other person starts sleeping with someone else.

If they're not a Christian don't marry them in the first place, but if you do, try to make it work. If they're abusive, leave and don't remarry but pray for them. If they leave you, let them go and it's up to your conscience on whether you should remarry.

I realize that people want to take other things into consideration, but to me this is pretty clear and it's what I would, and will, stand by. Generally it's not my place to tell people that they're going against scripture, but if it was my place via leadership, accountability, or prophecy then I definitely would.
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Re: Divorce

Postby limework » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:56 pm

but God deals with people individually. that's what the Holy Spirit's job is; He's our connection and help mate. God even says in His word that He is still revealing things to us not in the Bible. personal example:
limework wrote:i talked to Him a lot about it - stuff like the scriptures in Matthew about divorce - and eventually got a peace about the divorce. and now i know it's because He never intended for us to be together like that in the first place.

that's why you can't generalize Scripture. it must be studied and discussed with the Holy Spirit to reveal its full meaning.
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Re: Divorce

Postby ThePageStaysBlank » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:35 pm

I think a lot of people agree with you, Elisa, at the core, but when you really start to talk about a specific person or marriage things get a lot more complicated.

It would be hard to be 20 something and be stuck in a terrible marriage. How do you face being stuck together for another 50+ years?

How do you deal with a husband who treats his kids terribly? Or a wife that doesn't want to be a mother to her children?

What do you do for a spouse that drinks constantly? That refuses to get help and has spent most of the family money on alcohol?

How to do you fix a marriage with a spouse that constantly inflicts emotional abuse and is becoming more threatening?

It's situations like these that require the Holy Spirit, because there are no hard and fast rules for Christian divorce, in my opinion.
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Re: Divorce

Postby HxC Scene Roo » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:11 pm

This is the part where you're supposed to go, "Huh, the Bible is full of a lot of stuff that doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe I should reconsider putting stock in random compilation of the works of raving lunatics from thousands of years ago." but I digress.
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Re: Divorce

Postby limework » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:59 pm

sigh
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