Homosexuality v.3(?)

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Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby GiraffeInMyThroat » Wed May 12, 2010 4:05 pm

limework wrote:oh they sound like typical scene tools how surprising

my thoughts exactly. Now you get why I don't really like listening to them... there are just some bands that say or do certain things that are just offputting. I love Guns N Roses but some of their songs about prostitutes and stuff like that really i feel the need to discuss the nature of certain tabboo subjects. in this case, urination me off. I used to like Jennifer Knapp but now that she's come out of the closet I can't listen to her music without my thoughts going to her deception for all those years.
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Re: VOTE!

Postby passionate_nihilist » Wed May 12, 2010 4:09 pm

Can you not listen to Elton John too?
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Re: VOTE!

Postby GiraffeInMyThroat » Wed May 12, 2010 4:11 pm

JaneLane wrote:Can you not listen to Elton John too?

Well Elton John sucks anyways. :P

But seriously, I don't have a problem with someone being gay, I have a problem with someone being gay and calling themself a Christian, thinking they aren't in sin, and lying about it for several years while in the spotlight of many music media outlets.
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Re: VOTE!

Postby CeeJay » Thu May 13, 2010 4:22 am

GiraffeInMyThroat wrote:But seriously, I don't have a problem with someone being gay, I have a problem with someone being gay and calling themself a Christian

This seriously has me infuriated off. Who now my sentence makes no sense are you to declare whether that someone is in sin?

Interpret scripture for yourself and get off your high horse.
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Re: VOTE!

Postby TorchesTogether » Thu May 13, 2010 7:36 am

I'll bet this ends up in Challenge.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby Matt » Thu May 13, 2010 8:51 am

Topic Split.

Also, I've never been one to quote the bible because it makes me feel weird. Also, because I just don't ever read it / apply it to my life, but even someone like me who doesn't really read / study it knows this one:

Matthew 7 wrote: 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.



....I mean, did I even do that right? I think that's right. *feels weird*
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby GiraffeInMyThroat » Thu May 13, 2010 9:13 am

I think that applies 100%... depending on how you define "judge". I don't think that's what I'm doing...

To me a person who struggles with homosexuality is no different than a person who struggles with pornography, masturbation, lying, stealing, whatever. We all have our own weaknesses. It's how we choose to deal with those weaknesses that matters. I think most of us know that the Bible has a definite stance on all of those- however- Paul says that "everything is permissible- but not everything is beneficial". So we are living under grace. It's not my place to determine who gets to be with Jesus in the end, but if the Bible is any reference, a homosexual person who lives life daily carrying their cross and struggles to overcome those urges (same with someone who deals with lust or stealing) probably has a place with the Lord in heaven. We all get tired and fall on our faces sometimes, it's inevitable. Being a Christian isn't easy. But if we rely on God and accept his payment for our screwups then we're good.

Now to the person I was referring to.
She was homosexual for something like 3 years before she quit her music career in the Christian contemporary music scene (having announced it only a month or two ago). At first she thought her feelings were wrong, but then she decided to alter what she believed so that her percieved sexual orientation would fit in with her faith. That is something I'm not down with. I don't percieve to be the measuring stick by which Christians should be measured by. I'm a worthless idiot. But is it wrong if those actions sour my perception of someone so that I don't enjoy her music anymore? I still will pray for her. I would love her just like I would anyone else. What more do you want?
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby Matt » Thu May 13, 2010 9:22 am

and this is why I seaking hate quoting the bible. it gets bended and twisted till we're using it against each other. I'm switching back to words.

I hope you don't mean pray that she'll stop being lesbian... What more do I want? I want you to not sound like the reasons why people dislike christians. That is incredibly hypocritical. Who says someone who steals can't be a christian, someone who does anything agaisnt the bible? Let's face it, everyone does. Last I checked, being a christian meant you believed in jesus.

I haven't been legitimently infuriated off at a post in a long time, so I'm going to stop here until I can start speaking calmly.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 13, 2010 9:38 am

I love that verse in Matthew, it's overlooked too often.

That said, Paul also tells us to hold our brothers accountable. Sometimes it seems like there's a fine line between judging and holding accountable, the only real difference is the persons mindset. if they are genuinely concerned about something that another christian is doing, it's ok to take them aside and say "hey, this is wrong" without being condescending.

So when it comes to homosexuality, I think it would be ok to take them aside and tell them it's wrong, since the bible is pretty clear about that. as long as it's in love.


I kind of just scanned this conversation, maybe that doesn't help at all.


more relevant; I don't think that being gay is a choice, so it's not like they can just switch it off. Actively pursuing a gay lifestyle however is a choice, and I think that's where the sin comes in.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby hannahsayshello » Thu May 13, 2010 9:57 am

GiraffeInMyThroat wrote:But is it wrong if those actions sour my perception of someone so that I don't enjoy her music anymore?


i would say yes. some of the other musicians you listen to are most likely liars, cheats, adulterers, thiefs, "murderers" (for if you're angry at someone it's just like killing them), etc.
if her homosexuality affects you, then every other musician's sins should affect you.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby riot2003 » Thu May 13, 2010 10:04 am

I think its not the fact that she IS a homosexual that is being scrutinized, but the fact that she is embracing the sin and saying as a christian its okay to live a life of sin. I'm sure that musicans who lie and cheat and whatnot would fall under the same criticism if they openly stated that their sin was perfectly acceptable in a life modeled after Christ.

This is what we need to make sure of: a christian life is modeled after christ. We all sin, but to submit to the name of christ is to admit that sin is NO LONGER a part of your life, but a struggle and an area of your life that you GIVE to Christ. BUT if I give my life to Christ, but withhold a section which is sinful that I am NOT willing to give to Christ and admit a struggle with, then I am mis-representing Christ and what being a christian is about.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby monstersforyou » Thu May 13, 2010 10:22 am

There's a gay guy at my church. My mom and I were talking about it and she told me (cause she does read the bible, and I don't) that it says somewhere about it not being about the person being gay or whatever, it's the actions they take in that. I guess basically what I'm saying is it's not being gay, it's partaking in things such as sexual activity. So I don't think it's very fair to say that someone is a hypocrite because they say they're gay, it's about the actions they take. It's kind of like the difference between someone who thinks homicidal thoughts, and someone who acts out on them. One has restraint and the other doesn't. They're also both psychopaths but that's another story. Did this post make any sense at all? Please don't hate on me, I'm sensitive you fools.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby riot2003 » Thu May 13, 2010 10:40 am

Most discussions about homosexuallity that I get into boil down to whether or not you beleive that someone is born honosexual or not; whether they can choose or not to be gay.

I also beleive that you don't just have to act on thoughts to be sinning. Sin is in your heart and intention, not in your hands.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby tsamneb » Thu May 13, 2010 11:10 am

there's a lot i could say to this, but i mostly just agree with josh and patrick.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby GiraffeInMyThroat » Thu May 13, 2010 12:32 pm

wewillbelegends wrote:I hope you don't mean pray that she'll stop being lesbian... What more do I want? I want you to not sound like the reasons why people dislike christians. That is incredibly hypocritical. Who says someone who steals can't be a christian, someone who does anything agaisnt the bible? Let's face it, everyone does. Last I checked, being a christian meant you believed in jesus.

On the prayer side of it...
I pray that God would give me the strength to overcome my weaknesses. If you told me you had a problem with lying I would pray God would give you what you need to overcome that struggle. And if someone were homosexual... well you get the idea.
And really as a Christian people are going to dislike you. If doing what the bible says is offensive to the rest of the world, that's too bad. Being a Christian does mean believing in Jesus. But Jesus said "if you love me you'll follow my commands".
Please keep in mind that I never said someone who steals can't be Christian. I think I'll just defer to Patrick for this, as his post pretty much clears up everything:
This is what we need to make sure of: a christian life is modeled after christ. We all sin, but to submit to the name of christ is to admit that sin is NO LONGER a part of your life, but a struggle and an area of your life that you GIVE to Christ. BUT if I give my life to Christ, but withhold a section which is sinful that I am NOT willing to give to Christ and admit a struggle with, then I am mis-representing Christ and what being a christian is about.


Matt wrote:I haven't been legitimently annoyed off at a post in a long time, so I'm going to stop here until I can start speaking calmly.

Sorry, I probably could have worded my post better. I never intended any offense.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby heavymetal_dante » Thu May 13, 2010 1:42 pm

monstersforyou wrote:There's a gay guy at my church. My mom and I were talking about it and she told me (cause she does read the bible, and I don't) that it says somewhere about it not being about the person being gay or whatever, it's the actions they take in that. I guess basically what I'm saying is it's not being gay, it's partaking in things such as sexual activity. So I don't think it's very fair to say that someone is a hypocrite because they say they're gay, it's about the actions they take. It's kind of like the difference between someone who thinks homicidal thoughts, and someone who acts out on them. One has restraint and the other doesn't. They're also both psychopaths but that's another story. Did this post make any sense at all? Please don't hate on me, I'm sensitive you fools.

I would just like to say that I really agree with this post. I would say that there is a big difference between finding someone of the same sex attractive, and actually engaging in sexual activities with them. It's no different then a hetero guy finding a chick attractive, in my eyes. If either person acts on their attraction in a sexual way, it's a sin.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby CeeJay » Thu May 13, 2010 2:05 pm

To Danada's post about holding each other accountable, that does not fit this situation as I feel that in this instance, such an accountability has never been established. In order to keep someone accountable, you can't just post stuff on the internet and tell your friends what the person is doing is sin. If this was Josh's own close friend, it would be very, very different. But since not a single one of us (that I know of) actually has a personal relationship with Jennifer Knapp, how would such an accountability be possible?

Short answer: It's not.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 13, 2010 2:30 pm

in an ideal situation, any one of us should be able to talk to her as a brother or sister in Christ, even if we don't necessarily know her. I agree that since we don't we would just come across as angry hxc Christians who feel like we need to tell her she's wrong.
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby Evil Exe » Thu May 13, 2010 3:42 pm

Ugh, I can't even organize my thoughts to form a good response.

Gimme like an hour or two...
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Re: Homosexuality v.3(?)

Postby rawADAMkills » Thu May 13, 2010 3:50 pm

Out of curiosity, how many of you KNOW a gay person? Not know OF a gay person, not "my uncle's gay lolol" a gay person, and not had a conversation or two with a gay person, but actually KNOW someone who is gay. As a friend, close friend, or otherwise.

I'm not trying to lure anyone into a giant slamfast of facts, Bible verses, or judgements. I'm honestly just curious of what crowd is talking here.
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